Thank you for you comments! martine

It was bought in 'Beads of Paradise' in NYC. I don't know if this can be a reference in judging....
If a photo from a bigger distance would be helpful for anyone, just let me know.

After reviewing some more islamic beads, it seems that a tapering hole is not that uncommon, which still is not excluding all other possibilities....

Anyone else?

Hi:

The owners of Beads of Paradise have access to great beads - ancient and antique - and, in the past, sold many. However, in recent years, I have seen loads of reproductions offered as authentic for very high prices. These repros were obvious, even from a distance, and I wouldn't say that about the bead that you received.

I've also seen beads there that are simply mis-categorized. I'm hardly an expert, but I do have a pretty nice collection of ancients and, like Joyce, I've been able to see and hold many of Bassem's beads. I would not buy an "ancient bead" at Beads of Paradise.

That said, I'll leave to others the assessment of this particular bead. I'm just commenting on the source.

"A warned man/woman is worth two " - as we say over here.

Jamey had similar comments about their mistaken Ids. It 's a pity and I do hope it is not intentional, because a lot of money is involved.

My partner Ward has no bead knowledge and bought it because he happened to be there and wanted to surprise me. And for sure we will certainly never buy another "ancient" bead there!

Could you tell me what gives it away. Is it the shape, the colour, the trail,.....

Hi Martin,
The manifucturing technique of the core - gives it rightaway,( 20th century). I've seen semilar work coming out of Seria, Turkey and South Ukrain - the crimea paninsula.
All the best.

You referred to manufacturing techniques and I assumed it was the difference sizes in the perforation but now I am not sure that is the case. Could you offer some more insight into the manufacturing techniques that indicates this bead is 20th century. Thanks so much!

I think that's what Yankee is referring to that gives it away in the image.
The tapered perforation is very common in Islamic era furnace-wound beads - they were done on tapered iron mandrels. They didn't use white mandrel release as is used in current times. Yet the current makers are using the tapered mandrel, so that current beads will have more consistent resemblance to the ancient versions.

Having handled a lot of ancient beads of Bassem's for a few years I don't recall seeing white stuff inside the perfs of any of them.

Hi Joyce, Thank you for the info. I have been wondering about this white substance, but thought it could be either caked earth from being stuck somewhere in the ground, or residue from a mandrel. How can I figure out what it really is. Or are my assumptions ridiculous and sounding like coming from a desperado :-) ?

I was merely concerned about the outspoken melon shape and the not so well fused trail, ... but it seems like the dirty white substance might be more of a clue?

but I am not a bead maker. So are you saying lime is the material used on mandrels then?

I came to terms it is substance from the mandrel as Stefany hinted and Joyce pointed out reg. current beads. I checked it out some days ago and it is definitely not earth, but chalky substance and lime fits the bill.

I think a bead is found in the earth (around mountains). It can be the South of Russia, Ukraine, Turkey or Cyprus. On beads from these regions always there is a LIME touch.

So white stuff on supposedly ancient Islamic beads means they were made on modern mandrels and are not ancient? Are there any other beads that this applies to? Fascinating observation and information. You have to know so much to detect a repro. I wonder if any ancients accidently get into the stream of commerce or do most sellers know what you all know? The knowledge on this board is amazing. Trying to learn as much as I can so I can help others as well as of course not buying any repros myself. So many scams out there- I wonder how many are innocent mistakes?

Yankee, that's a small town in Northern California about 20 minutes from us! Should I hop in the car and head over there with a shovel and a screen?

I will repeat, in Simferopol and Sevastopol don't make a beads! A remark beads occurs from China, Morocco, Afghanistan....

Hello Plaza,
I've been there many times. I can give you the adress - where they make them in Simferopol. It's a glass workshop that specialisez in manifacturing glass aquipment for labs,( old fashion labs).
All the best.

He writes he could not say with any confidence that this melon bead is not an Islamic Period bead but is not positive either that it's an old bead--but it might be. He excludes the possibility of a Bida bead,and melon beads not really being in the repertoire of Turkish beadmakers, he excludes this possibility as well. Syria?

Hi

These are all examples of fairly recently made furnace wound melon beads made in Egypt (Cairo to be exact). They belong to Torben Sode, the well-respected Danish archaeologist and bead specialist who showed them to the Bead Society of GB back in 2003.

It's certainly a possibility that yours is from a similar tradition.

Cheers
Carole

It is quite a different type of glass'paste', and the melon shape is more loose, but who knows that they are cousins.
Anyway lovely melons!

I really can't see that pronounced yellow trailing lasting for a prolonged period of time. If it was that old wouldn't the trailing be more severely damaged?

from a previous thread not so long ago I learned that circumstances in which a bead has been preserved determines a lot of its outlook/ condition. So authentic ancient beads in pristine condition exist. - can't find the tread though.

I have a Middle Eastern furnace made wound black melon bead with yellow trail from the 20th century.

This bead was ‘nagging’ me because I didn’t really know what it was. Now I know what this bead might be and what it definitely is not, I am happy and will wear it with love as it was given with love.
It just is a pity that Ward contributed so much to the rent of Beads of Paradise!

I think it is about time to find and visit someone with a great collection of Islamic beads so that I can see, feel and compare these special ancient beads.
Thank you all!