I agree. I think a lot of the beads we call "melons" look much more like real melons, especially musk melons, than poppy seed pods. There was in fact a huge variety of melons in the ancient world, many of them with different ritual and food functions. In Egypt the melon was said to have sprung from the seed of the god Set (or Seth), who spilled it on the ground while in pursuit of Isis, who had assumed the form of a bitch in heat (Set, the god of storms and confusion, was the bad boy of the Egytian gods, and had to be propitiated with regular offerings from the human world.) Melons were important to ordinary mortals because they grew so easily and prolifically and were great thirst-quenchers in a hot, arid climate. They appear frequently on the walls of Pharaoh's tombs, presumably for that reason.

I think that ancient bead and amulet makers were very skilled at conveying an image. So, when they wanted to represent poppy seed pods they carved or moulded them with the typical flat top we see in carnelian and faience beads; on the other hand, when they made objects that resembled melons, I'd guess that that's what they intended them to be.

I'll append a nice, mouth-watering image of a musk melon, and a small picture (the only one I could find) of a so-called chate melon which is supposed to have been one of the original Egyptian varieties. And in the next post, I'll add an image of the fond blanc melon which seems very similar to me to the sort of "squashed melon" form of some early Southeast Asian beads, particularly from Funan. Finally, an old Russian photograph of a melon vendor in Samarkand (Uzberkistan) - which is where I ate huge quantities of the most beautiful melons I've ever tasted!

Cheers,

Will

Also, just because a fruit is called a "melon," that doesn't mean it is a melon. Gourds and squashes are confused with melons and with each other. English language naming is full of mistaken identities, convenience, presumption, and simplicity.

A "cheesecake" is not a cake but a pie. But since it's made in a cake pan it's called a "cake." A "Boston cream pie" is not a pie, but a cake. But since it's made in a pie pan, it's called a "pie."

There does not have to be ONE answer to any question or issue. What inspired the bead shape? Any fruit or seed or pod that people thought was attractive, that had symbolical value, and was know either locally or exotically to the people who made the beads.

Jamey

Tibetans love to dress up their animals and seem to favour red too.

Especially the doggies which they adorn with these red decorative collars.

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Boston Cream Pie would look lovely in one! ;-}

(Email me your address and I will send her one.)

Best wishes // bob

I can think of some of my more gloomy friends these collars might suit very well.

Will

Other important cultural foods include

ignames---> likely the origin of the term yam in America, but it is not of the same species (although people seem to get this wrong ALL the time). Much larger and more fibourous it is pounded into a ball of dough like substance called pile and eaten with numerous sauces. It is pure white inside with no orange or yellow color. The exterior reminds me much more of manioc then yams. There is also a sweeter variety which has purple veins of color throughout the igname which reminds me of taro (they also have taro aka cocoyam). http://www.flickr.com/photos/martinebouard/437305660/

Gumbo--> or what we call Okra (and the likely source for the name of the southern soup dish). Used in sauces.

peanuts, bambara groundnut, and African locust bean are also native.

Patrick

Patrick

pennsylvaniapine@verizon.net

Here in the US, we do not have melons that have lobed forms. Our melons are basically ellipsoidal. Some have longitudinal line divisions (like the watermelon), but not actual expressed convexities. The "melon shape," to me, looks more like a pumpkin (a squash).

One variety of Venetian rosetta bead—the beads I refer to as "late 19th C. a speo beads," are typically made from star canes with green exteriors, and reformed into rounded elongated shapes. (Sometimes also flattened into tabular beads.) The starry layers of the (typically) third white layer, cause a variegation in the tones of the external green. Since the 1970s, these have been called "watermelon chevron beads" (although technically they are not chevron beads, having NOT been cut to reveal inner layers).

In the 1990s, the "water" part of the name was dropped by many bead sellers here in the US, and these Venetian beads (including other non-starry late a speo beads of any description and color combination) were suddenly called "melon beads." Since these beads are not even remotely lobed, I have discouraged this impractical naming. It just adds another confusing layer onto an already foggy, and misunderstood list of popular names.

Opps! It's time for me to pack my bag and head to the airport....

Jamey

Jamey

Thanks, Patrick

"The "melon shape," to me, looks more like a pumpkin (a squash)." Beadman

Why then don't you ask us to call them "Pumpkin" beads?
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"absent-minded professor"- Wasn't that a movie??? Jerry Lewis???
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"It just adds another confusing layer onto an already foggy, and misunderstood list of popular names." Beadman

For goodness sake let's avoid any confusion and change all the names! If you could just tell us the right names and how we should spell them we could all quit with the silly impractical names and confusion. I can see this needs to be done now...... and done by you.

I didn't realize "melon bead" was such a huge linguistic problem before you mentioned it.

Probably we should debate it some more - right?
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BTW: I am still trying to quit spelling dZi the way everybody else spells it just to please you???

Thanks everyone for your contributions & especially Beadman!

Happy Knew Year Everybody! :-}

Good luck with that.

Please ignore my posts if you find them so frustrating. They are not for you anyway--but rather for people who seek advice, and want to indulge in dialogue.

Perhaps Kirk and Jürgen would enjoy arguing with you.

JDA.

I present this information very logically in the articles I wrote for Ornament (1982 and 1983), and for The Glass Trade Bead Conference (1983), in which I discussed the modern origins of millefiori work and chevron (rosetta) beadmaking.

"Chevron" is an English name promoted around 1881 by John Brent. He referred to the beads as "glass beads with a chevron pattern." To be specific, he said these beads had been cut or faceted, and that these facets reveal the interior layers of the bead/cane. And the pattern SEEN ON ANY PARTICULAR FACET, was a "chevron pattern." The name was broadened to include the rounded cutting of beads, routinely practiced since the early 20th C. (but now presenting a band of zigzags on an ellipsoidal or spheroidal bead).

The Italian name for this family of beads is "rosetta" (plural "rosette"--a three syllable word). The implication of the Italian names suggests the makers or admirers of this work thought the patterns looked like flowers. A "rose" is a desirable flower, and stands as the generic for any "floral" reference. There is a very long tradition in the art world of speaking of rounded or circular motifs as "rosettes" (a two-syllable French-derived name). Italians also called their early millefiori work "rosette" (three syllables)--making it clear that they were describing the CANES used for both types of production.

Canes for rosetta work, as made at Venice, typically divide into two molded groups—these being those that are star-molded (having points) and those that are flower-molded (having petals of other shapes). In addition, Venetians made other types of canes and cane patterns, but they are in the minority compared to typical molded canes—and many of these (particularly composite canes) COPY molded canes. This is demonstrated in my article here at BC.N.

Back to rosetta beads. The family name encompasses all drawn beads that have been composed from layered canes with internally molded patterns. The majority of these are star patterns—but there are also FLORAL rosetta beads, and even a few distinct non-molded-layered-cane beads that have to be considered.

So it goes like this: Rosetta beads are derived from hollow canes that have molded interior layers (and may or may not have other features as well). Star-patterned rosetta beads feature molded starry patterns. Star beads that are ground on the ends to reveal inner layers are called "chevron beads" (in English).

A star bead that is not faceted, ground, or abraded (to reveal inner layers) is NOT a "chevron bead." (It has NO "chevrons"!) It is a "star bead." There are lots of varieties of these beads, from over a nearly 600-year period.

When we are confronted with a multilayered drawn bead that has a molded pattern, but that pattern is floral, I prefer to refer to these as "rosetta beads" (respecting the original intent of the name). And when such beads are cut to reveal inner layers, these patterns are not "chevrons," but rather are waves or scallops—and I refer to the beads as "scallop beads."

Early English-speaking authors devised the names "star bead" and "star bead glass" for what are commonly called Venetian "chevron" and "millefiori" beads (and other artifacts composed from these canes). Eisen, in particular, recognized very early that the technique of making these canes depended upon using a star-shaped mold to impress the pattern into the gather of glass, during cane-making. And he understood that this was an important departure from previous methods of making pictorial or figural canes.

This history is reasonably well-documented (considering what is known about historical sources—weeding-out the crackpots), and logically and accurately presented by me many times in published articles and online expositions. God willing, I will someday finish my book on chevron beads, and fully document and present this research that has so far taken some twenty-nine years of my career.

Jamey

When I began studying chevron/rosetta beads in the late '70s, it was routinely believed that the canes were either composite, or had been "rolled over a corrugated marvering board" to become starry. This is an absolute mistake, in that the process would not function well. (In other words, is practically impossible.) A very few authors referred to "dipping" and canes being "dip-molded," based on Medieval illustrations of processes and tools. (I referred to these woodcuts too.) When I presented my synthesis on canemaking for Venetian beads, it was the first time that the technique was accurately described, and compared to previous mistaken ideas. The only other arena where this was understood was in the manufacture of millefiori paperweights. At that time, I had some lively discussion with Paul Hollister—who was the reigning authority on paperweights, and whom I found to have ideas very similar to my own.

JDA.

Carl is right on the money.For sure Molded Bohemians. See my prev.post pics.

One Old Chinese melon bead w/ six lobes at, 13x15mm.

Patrick

JDA.

ebay item 390023910230

By the way, as you can see I often find ways to procrstonate by trolling the ebay auctions everyday. It has become a habit like email. I have to check it at least once...if not more ;) LOL

Just a "nickname" for a certain type bead. I know, nicknames are frowned upon.But,some only know certain beads by their nicknames.

You will also see "Feather" , "Snail Shell", "Eye" Beads,"Florals" , "Rattlesnakes" & even "Dog Teeth" ! Some I agree with, others I do not. Some are American nicknames others are African nicknames. Surely the Venetians way back when were making certain beautifully decorated beads & seeing "florals "..... Yes ?

Patrick