Post Message Search Overview RegisterLoginAdmin
Old Coral with Decorative Banding
Post Reply Edit View All Forum
Posted by: Rosanna Post Reply
03/23/2015, 11:31:38

I made a few bucks at the the Bead Bazaar over the weekend, but more importantly, some new bead contacts. From one of these new contacts I was offered this broken necklace, and I bought it. It's a collection of antique mosaic coral beads, antique unaltered coral beads, some banded coral beads, all mixed in with a few silver beads from India and China. It is not an "ethnic piece" but a necklace composed by a collector from beads purchased over a period of time.

I'm now busy re-composing and re-stringing it. And, I'd like to know if any forumites are familiar with the banded beads. One opinion I have so far, is that this decoration is typical of Ukraine, another says they are from the area of the former Yugoslavia. The bands are silver but but smallest one appears to be done in gold.

Also, several of the bands are loose, and slide right off if handled, so I wonder if there are any opinions about using a discrete dab of white glue to hold them in place.



Copyright 2024
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Picture didn't upload - here it is
Re: Old Coral with Decorative Banding -- Rosanna Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Rosanna Post Reply
03/23/2015, 11:41:20



Copyright 2024
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
I'm getting "internal server error" - will try again later
Re: Picture didn't upload - here it is -- Rosanna Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Rosanna Post Reply
03/23/2015, 11:42:55



Copyright 2024
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Third time a charm!
Re: Old Coral with Decorative Banding -- Rosanna Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Rosanna Post Reply
03/23/2015, 14:11:04

TibetanCoral.jpg (79.6 KB)  


Modified by Rosanna at Mon, Mar 23, 2015, 14:11:45

Copyright 2024
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Re: Third time a charm! DOUBLE WOW!,,,
Re: Third time a charm! -- Rosanna Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Adjichristine Post Reply
03/23/2015, 15:41:26



Copyright 2024
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Hi Rosanna~ I have been using actual tree pitch, and carbon for these kind of dilemmas..
Re: Third time a charm! -- Rosanna Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: jake Post Reply
03/23/2015, 16:30:43

www.nomadbeads.com

Copyright 2024
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Very nice suggestion - thanks, Jake!
Re: Hi Rosanna~ I have been using actual tree pitch, and carbon for these kind of dilemmas.. -- jake Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Rosanna Post Reply
03/23/2015, 21:19:26

We have pine trees so getting a dab of sap and coloring it will be easy!



Copyright 2024
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Yes, exactly... All I did was heat in water, does not dilute, can be cleaned with acetone.
Re: Very nice suggestion - thanks, Jake! -- Rosanna Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: jake Post Reply
03/30/2015, 09:20:57

www.nomadbeads.com

Modified by jake at Mon, Mar 30, 2015, 09:21:12

Copyright 2024
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Couldn't carbon and tree pitch stain the coral?
Re: Third time a charm! -- Rosanna Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: JRJ Post Reply
03/24/2015, 02:09:42

I understand both rosin and carbon are commonly used in adhesives for silver, but coral is porous and I wonder if this mixture would stain the coral. While white glue is reverseable (a positive trait from a conservation perspective), I wonder if it would be strong enough to hold the bands in place. Having only questions and no solutions to offer, I've asked a colleague and will let you know if I receive any recommendations.



Copyright 2024
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Maybe paper
Re: Couldn't carbon and tree pitch stain the coral? -- JRJ Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Rosanna Post Reply
03/24/2015, 07:10:58

I'm thinking that my first try will be to slip a tiny piece of paper under the band in one spot, then rotate the band slightly to see if that will tighten it. But, it appears I may pop the band apart at the seam if I work it too much, so maybe the dab of glue will be safer.



Copyright 2024
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
No stain, no problem, this is how it was done historically.
Re: Couldn't carbon and tree pitch stain the coral? -- JRJ Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: jake Post Reply
03/27/2015, 15:58:07

www.nomadbeads.com

Copyright 2024
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Magnificent! I love! I want!
Re: Third time a charm! -- Rosanna Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: joybrisighella Post Reply
03/24/2015, 06:37:05



Copyright 2024
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
More suggestions re. slipping bands
Re: Third time a charm! -- Rosanna Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: jrj Post Reply
03/27/2015, 22:39:04

My friend/colleague who is an object conservator uses Acryloid B-72 for similar conditions. It’s non-yellowing and can be reversed in acetone. Hold a brush dampened with diluted B-72 next to the silver edge and the adhesive will be wicked under the band via capillary action. You might put some painters tape on the coral adjacent to the silver first to protect it. It can be purchased at Conservation Resources: http://www.conservationresources.com/Main/section_34/section34_16.html

While I was waiting on the above info, I looked at the details you posted and noticed some of the teeth (or zig zag detail) appear to bend inward; perhaps this was done to hold the bands in place. The third image shows the teeth or zig zag detail bent a little toward the coral. One could tap all of the ends of the teeth on the loose bands ever so lightly with a small hammer (with the head covered with a thin fabric) to bend them slightly inward toward the coral. In doing so any concern about adhesives on the porous coral and the paper loosening and falling out is eliminated.

I read Jake's post about pitch and carbon being the original adhesive placed under the bands before they were brazed in place. How does one get it under silver and gold bands that are already in place? Is it thinned so it could be applied as a dilute liquid as described above?



Modified by jrj at Sat, Mar 28, 2015, 11:30:21

Copyright 2024
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Teeth sticking out
Re: More suggestions re. slipping bands -- jrj Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Rosanna Post Reply
03/29/2015, 19:25:56

Some more very interesting ideas here - the bead with the loose band has rough edges due to the teeth sticking out very slightly past the edge of the bead. It is going to make it difficult to wear since it will catch on clothing. So, the idea about rounding over the points by bending them slightly may do double duty. Otherwise I may have to leave this one off the strand to avoid problems.



Copyright 2024
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Re: Teeth sticking out
Re: Teeth sticking out -- Rosanna Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: jrj Post Reply
03/29/2015, 23:42:47

The beads are so wonderful, it would be a shame to leave one off. Perhaps you could wear the necklace with fabrics that don't readily snag, like cottons or cotton/polyester blends?



Copyright 2024
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Use a burnishing tool to push them down.
Re: Teeth sticking out -- Rosanna Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: lopacki Post Reply
03/30/2015, 08:46:02



Copyright 2024
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Used a small wooden dowel and gently worked the teeth - success!
Re: Teeth sticking out -- Rosanna Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Rosanna Post Reply
03/30/2015, 16:46:36



Copyright 2024
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Yeah! No slipping bands or snagging teeth!
Re: Teeth sticking out -- Rosanna Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: jrj Post Reply
03/30/2015, 18:31:01



Copyright 2024
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
well worth the wait!
Re: Old Coral with Decorative Banding -- Rosanna Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Luann Udell Post Reply
03/23/2015, 18:58:49

This is absolutely beautiful. Close-ups? Pleeeeeze??

Luann Udell artist & writer Ancient stories retold in modern artifacts LuannUdell.com

Copyright 2024
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Will do, Luann - give me another day or so to get back to it.
Re: well worth the wait! -- Luann Udell Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Rosanna Post Reply
03/23/2015, 21:20:28



Copyright 2024
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Close-ups of coral and silver
Re: well worth the wait! -- Luann Udell Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Rosanna Post Reply
03/24/2015, 17:53:09

Coral1.jpg (48.9 KB)  Coral2.jpg (61.9 KB)  


Copyright 2024
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
More close-ups
Re: well worth the wait! -- Luann Udell Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Rosanna Post Reply
03/24/2015, 17:53:56

Coral3.jpg (38.0 KB)  Coral4.jpg (99.9 KB)  


Copyright 2024
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
And more
Re: well worth the wait! -- Luann Udell Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Rosanna Post Reply
03/24/2015, 17:54:38

Coral5.jpg (31.7 KB)  Coral6.jpg (38.7 KB)  


Copyright 2024
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
And More
Re: well worth the wait! -- Luann Udell Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Rosanna Post Reply
03/24/2015, 17:55:34

Coral7.jpg (39.8 KB)  Coral8.jpg (42.9 KB)  


Copyright 2024
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Still more
Re: well worth the wait! -- Luann Udell Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Rosanna Post Reply
03/24/2015, 17:56:38

I especially like the one that appears to have a gold band.

Coral9.jpg (30.2 KB)  Coral91.jpg (33.2 KB)  


Copyright 2024
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Final group
Re: well worth the wait! -- Luann Udell Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Rosanna Post Reply
03/24/2015, 17:57:38

A few have well-worn holes, indicating some reasonably decent age.

Coral92.jpg (46.3 KB)  Coral93.jpg (37.6 KB)  


Copyright 2024
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
THANK YOU!!!! So wonderful to see each bead up close!
Re: Final group -- Rosanna Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Luann Udell Post Reply
03/24/2015, 18:42:39

Luann Udell artist & writer Ancient stories retold in modern artifacts LuannUdell.com

Copyright 2024
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
A very nice acquisition indeed!
Re: Old Coral with Decorative Banding -- Rosanna Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Joyce Post Reply
03/23/2015, 23:53:11

And I like Jake's pitch idea to fortify the metal bands in place.



Copyright 2024
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Ukrainian traditional coral necklace
Re: Old Coral with Decorative Banding -- Rosanna Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Rosanna Post Reply
03/24/2015, 07:07:19

Miss J sent me this picture for comparison - the silver banding on the coral appears identical to the pieces I have. Thanks, Jaret!

antique_ukranian_coral_necklace.jpg (167.6 KB)  


Copyright 2024
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
In action accessorizing an ethnic costume
Re: Ukrainian traditional coral necklace -- Rosanna Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: beadiste Post Reply
03/24/2015, 08:34:18

"Coral necklace was an especially highly prized item but they cost a lot and only relatively few could afford them. As recently as about 70-80 years ago for a price of a coral necklace one could buy a cow. The poorer had to be content with glass beads, the richer sported necklaces made of gold and silver coins."

http://www.wumag.kiev.ua/wumag_old/archiv/1_97/dress.htm


Related link: http://www.wumag.kiev.ua/wumag_old/archiv/1_97/dress.htm

Copyright 2024
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Definitely from Ukraine or Russia
Re: Ukrainian traditional coral necklace -- Rosanna Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: rubyzane Post Reply
03/24/2015, 09:32:52

The beads with the silver bands...jagged edges, are definitely from the Ukraine / Russia area. Some of the multi-strand coral necklaces were my first purchases from Ebay, over 10 years ago, and I've tried to add to my collection since then. Prices have escalated ten times the original amounts I paid, but I love them. Your necklace is exquisite with the combination of other beads. I have seen these sold a few times as Native American, but that is definitely a mistake. Enjoy..these are so hard to come by, and some of the multi-strand ones go for thousands. I find them so unique & special & like the others...I love I want!!! You were lucky..Lynne



Copyright 2024
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
I was just wondering how the silver bands were cut??
Re: Definitely from Ukraine or Russia -- rubyzane Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Luann Udell Post Reply
03/24/2015, 18:42:03

I immediately thought of those scissors that cut paper into zig-zag, 'stamp' or scallop outlines, but silver????

Luann Udell artist & writer Ancient stories retold in modern artifacts LuannUdell.com

Copyright 2024
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Re: Ukrainian traditional coral necklace
Re: Ukrainian traditional coral necklace -- Rosanna Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Toby Post Reply
03/24/2015, 12:55:10

They are really beautiful beads. Curious, where do you suppose the coral itself came from?



Copyright 2024
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
I believe most is antique from the Mediterranean
Re: Re: Ukrainian traditional coral necklace -- Toby Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Rosanna Post Reply
03/24/2015, 21:03:05

And the red and pink corals from the Med are now an endangered species due to over-harvesting. The same thing has happened in the Pacific.

From the Soft Flex site: Harvests of red corals from Mediterranean waters have been reduced by 66 percent from 1985 to 2001. So much so, that the jewelry making industry there, (once famous for its red corals) is forced to import.
A record of combined harvest from the Mediterranean Sea and the Western Pacific Ocean shows that 445 metric tons were harvested in 1984 compared to just 50 metric tons in 2004! It has taken only 20 years to deplete the harvest to such extreme lows. (A little trivia here: 1 metric ton=2,205 pounds!)

I suggest that everyone consider not buying any contemporary coral!



Copyright 2024
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Re: Old Coral with Decorative Banding
Re: Old Coral with Decorative Banding -- Rosanna Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Air studios Post Reply
03/27/2015, 12:06:56

Each one of the beads on the necklace is a unique treasure. The coral is a dead ringer for the antique 'mosaic coral' trade beads I purchased from a large collection of loose beads many years ago. My beads were heaped into baskets and sold individually by weight, very expensive.. so I use them in jewelry making one by one, showcasing one or two beads on a piece. Although my beads are large they are delicate from use, and each one has an individual story of it's own regarding the test of time. Because this necklace was pieced together by a modern day artisan, it gives you the opportunity to restore and restring in your own way, and offers a forewarning of the damage the beads have sustained and will sustain if you're not careful. My opinion is that a bit of (some kind of organic) padding and epoxy would work to hold the silver 'sleeves' in place. But perhaps epoxy is not in keeping with the ancient, natural, methods of repair used to this point, I don't know. It's all about what feels right and what works best. What a brilliant find!



Copyright 2024
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Old coral
Re: Old Coral with Decorative Banding -- Rosanna Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Air Studios Post Reply
03/27/2015, 15:54:31

I think it's a good thing to purchase the old vintage and antique coral beads if you're lucky enough to stumble upon a strand here or there. It's a bit like collecting old ivory, yes, carries some bad karma now ... But back in the day, when we were truly clueless about endangered species and the health of the planet, jewelry made of coral or ivory was an innocent and reverent homage to natural resources.



Copyright 2024
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Thanks for your comments and welcome to the forum!
Re: Old coral -- Air Studios Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Rosanna Post Reply
03/27/2015, 17:47:12

May we know a little more about you and your studio?



Copyright 2024
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Re: Thanks for your comments and welcome to the forum!
Re: Thanks for your comments and welcome to the forum! -- Rosanna Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Air studios Post Reply
04/07/2015, 13:12:04

Started to answer this but is a long answer .. Best to do a private reply ? I'll try to figure out how to do that. Thanks for asking !



Copyright 2024
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Re: Thanks for your comments and welcome to the forum!
Re: Thanks for your comments and welcome to the forum! -- Rosanna Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Air studios Post Reply
04/08/2015, 11:21:47

Did you receive my reply? Hope so.



Copyright 2024
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users


Forum     Back