Posted by: floorkasp Post Reply
07/07/2014, 01:32:21
No chalcedony expert, but I do know it is a stone that is dyed often. It is quite porous, and lends itself to dying by first being treated with acid.
However, it is said that this treatment was first used in the 1800 in Idar Oberstein, Germany. African blue chalcedony can be quite blue by nature, so even when it is quite bright, it may be natural.
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Posted by: karavanserai Post Reply
07/07/2014, 02:34:06
Any means to detect it has been dyed?
martine
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Posted by: lopacki Post Reply
07/07/2014, 09:15:13
Martine, Here is an image of a piece of African blue chalcedony in the rough, this is a very nice piece and is naturally this color. I have made beads from this material and they come out quite nice. If it weren't for a hurting back from an accident a few days ago I would scrounge a bead, I know Joyce has one so perhaps if she has time she will post an image. Natural chalcedony comes in many colors it is just not that common, I have some true purple out in the studio that is amazing,if I get over there later today I will take an image of it and post it. All my best .......... Danny
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Posted by: karavanserai Post Reply
07/07/2014, 10:05:35
Thank you Danny, that is a real nice soft blue. I guess different shades of blue must exist, so how do you see whether they are coloured or not?
I bought some new ones some time ago, natural colour - see pictures below- but the ones I saw in Paris were really a much deeper blue. Let me try to find some on the web that look like it.
martine
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Posted by: karavanserai Post Reply
07/07/2014, 10:13:17
So here is my question : do you get beads out of this mineral as deep blue as the raw material?
martine
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Posted by: lopacki Post Reply
07/07/2014, 10:55:07
Martine, You asked if the beads will come out as blue as in the rough in the image you posted. More than likely the beads will not be as saturated as it looks in the rough. Usually the outer rind makes the color look a bit darker than when it is removed. The material you posted would with out a doubt make some very nice beads. After my first post I thought about it and it dawned on me that there are many colors in chalcedony that we do not think of as being chalcedony. One that came to mind is Chrysoprase most don't think of Chrysoprase as chalcedony but it is, some of the finest green beads I have ever made were from Chrysoprase, many would think they were best quality Jade. I have attached another image of chalcedony with color. One is purple and the other is a pink limb cast. Thomas "tasart" was kind enough to gift me the blue and also the purple I have posted and I must say they are some of the finest in these colors I have seen. All my best ........ Danny
Modified by lopacki at Mon, Jul 07, 2014, 10:56:11
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Posted by: karavanserai Post Reply
07/07/2014, 15:35:54
First, I didn't know about chrysoprase being chalcedony and only saw some in rough condition in real, no beads so far. I love this fantastic green. Which are the characteristics to detect this chrysoprase from the best quality of jade? My colouring question:is there a way to see the difference between natural and coloured/dyed chalcedony?
Thank you!
martine
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Posted by: lopacki Post Reply
07/08/2014, 11:48:48
First, I didn't know about chrysoprase being chalcedony and only saw some in rough condition in real, no beads so far. I love this fantastic green. Which are the characteristics to detect this chrysoprase from the best quality of jade? If you have seen plenty of jadeite or nephrite it is very easy to distinguish the difference, these two stones have certain characteristics that are unique to them. Chrysoprase again is as near agate as it can be so Chrysoprase looks much more like agate than either jade material. When forming in solution as the silica drops out of the solution the first thing to form is a common clear opal, next calcedony forms and then agate and finally Quartz. My colouring question:is there a way to see the difference between natural and coloured/dyed chalcedony? Many stones that have been dyed have telltale areas under magnification jade is prime for this. If you look under a microscope into the stone there is almost always an area or two where the dye has puddled. I looked at the website you got the blue Calcedony image from. It seems funny they have those four or five super high grade pieces of rough in the image and then if you look at the cabs they are offering the cabs are nearly clear with little to no blue. I think once in awhile they find the best blue but as with all stone the best is usually less than 1% of production. I figure the beads you saw were made out of this 1% back in the day and that is part of the reason they are now so expensive.
All my best ....... Danny
Modified by lopacki at Tue, Jul 08, 2014, 11:51:51
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Posted by: karavanserai Post Reply
07/08/2014, 13:48:55
martine
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Posted by: Luann Udell Post Reply
07/08/2014, 09:47:33
I bought these on Etsy. They aren't quite as blue--a little more uneven color than their photo. But definitely blue, and each piece is individual in tones. I mean, they aren't uniformly colored, which for some reason I took to be "not dyed". (sigh) I miss Russ!
Luann Udell
artist & writer
Ancient stories retold in modern artifacts
LuannUdell.com
Modified by Luann Udell at Tue, Jul 08, 2014, 09:49:47
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Posted by: Luann Udell Post Reply
07/08/2014, 09:52:57
But they don't look anything like what I got!
Luann Udell
artist & writer
Ancient stories retold in modern artifacts
LuannUdell.com
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Posted by: Just Fred Post Reply
07/08/2014, 02:51:40
Modified by Just Fred at Tue, Jul 08, 2014, 03:10:58
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Posted by: karavanserai Post Reply
07/08/2014, 08:30:06
martine
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Posted by: Logan Post Reply
07/08/2014, 02:21:00
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Posted by: Joyce Post Reply
07/08/2014, 21:49:46
Hoping your back is much better, Danny.
Here's the image David did of the lovely chalcedony bead you gave me. I just held it next to it's photo, and it is very, very close; in person, it is very slightly more lavender, believe it or not.
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Posted by: Barbara Post Reply
07/09/2014, 02:17:44
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Posted by: karavanserai Post Reply
07/09/2014, 04:55:54
martine
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Posted by: Barbara Post Reply
07/07/2014, 22:27:03
Especially the agates come in every hue imaginable and sometimes I use them. You can buy nail polish remover saturated on soft cotton pads, and I check for dye by rubbing a corner of the suspect stone with an acetone saturated pad and checking the pad for colour. Best ask permission first.
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Posted by: karavanserai Post Reply
07/08/2014, 02:45:45
I wonder how many sellers will allow it.
martine
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Posted by: beadiste Post Reply
07/07/2014, 19:50:38
Purple chalcedony, chrysoprase....
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Posted by: Just Fred Post Reply
07/07/2014, 22:29:27
As for true color. This is becoming more and more difficult. But when you feel certain that a bead is old, the color is more likely to be untreated. People sometimes ask me "How can you tell the difference between old and new?" I recommend buying the beads you know are new so that you can train your eye to identify the new ones. Then you will have a head start trying to find clues of antiquity in the ones which do not fit the mold. Frederick
Modified by Just Fred at Tue, Jul 08, 2014, 03:03:02
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Posted by: karavanserai Post Reply
07/08/2014, 03:07:11
Hello Fred,
thanks for showing your beautiful necklace with this fantastic colour!
And yes buying new ones is a good learning tool and handling old ones whenever you can. The beads I saw in Paris were ancient beads, I have no doubts about that. They just had all this quite intense colour. It is a pity I could not take a picture.
So should I assume noone would colour less attractive -colourwise- ancient beads. Has anyone heard of this practice ?
martine
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Posted by: Just Fred Post Reply
07/08/2014, 19:10:09
Martine, If antique and ancient beads are being more recently treated to change color, it is probably a trade secret. You are the first to mention this possibility to me. Frederick
Modified by Just Fred at Tue, Jul 08, 2014, 19:13:11
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Posted by: karavanserai Post Reply
07/09/2014, 02:48:23
I'm just suspicious. These beads are sought after and there is little on offer. On the other hand it could not be a grand scale operation. So may be I should stop guessing.
martine
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Posted by: paeonia Post Reply
07/09/2014, 04:09:27
I have this strand since about 10 years. A long strand that I guess chalcedony with beads from 12 to 18m. There are 2 very blue beads that looks so different from others. Can the chalcedony be naturally in this strong blue color?
My 2nd question is: with the length of 130cm of the string, maybe Fred could tell me if this can be a broken chinese court necklace? But the beads are graduated so not sure, just my later thought after looking at them for years...
Modified by paeonia at Wed, Jul 09, 2014, 04:10:45
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Posted by: lopacki Post Reply
07/09/2014, 09:52:08
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Posted by: Just Fred Post Reply
07/09/2014, 10:50:58
Mandarin Court Necklaces do not vary in length at all. And they are never graduated. The intense blue marker beads appear to be dyed and would be much larger in a MCN.
Modified by Just Fred at Thu, Jul 10, 2014, 07:18:36
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Posted by: TASART Post Reply
07/09/2014, 17:57:38
Here are some Silicates I cut, some silicates are Chalcedony but I tend equate Chalcedony with the blues, greys and purplish types, the stone I show are all natural color, the green is Chrysoprase, the blue is Gem Silica Chrysocolla and the reds are Bustamite.....if it looks like a Gummi Bear color to me its the good stuff!
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Posted by: karavanserai Post Reply
07/10/2014, 06:26:54
Great colors!!Are these considered expensive gems? Any colours more rare than others?
Would you have some blue lace agate/blueish grey chalcedony to show?
martine
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